My last post seems to have gotten a discussion going on how best to thank our First Aid and Fire volunteers. That discussion made me think that we might be able to brainstorm online about what we can do to (1) heal the rifts between the two "sides" in Town and (2) what we (as a community) and the new Town Board can do to make our Town a better place to live. I would invite everyone to post their ideas in the comments section and I'll make sure Carl and the members of the new Board (including Councilmen Miller and Spano) get them.Now, as you well know, normally I do not censor this blog, which makes for a bit of a free-for-all at at times. However, as the comments for this one post are meant to be a sort virtual brainstorming session, I am going to suspend the lack of rules here and only here. I am asking you to post only ideas for reconciliation or for improving the Town here. Please, no nastiness about past, present or future candidates, officials or persons otherwise involved in local politics (or anyone else, for that matter). Also, constructive criticism of others' posts is fair game, childish or rude remarks are not. I will not remove posts just because I happen to disagree with them. However, any post which is clearly not in the spirit of this experiment will be removed (assuming I can do so; I've never tried to censor a post, so I'm not certain the system will allow me to do so.)
I'll even avoid criticizing people for posting anonymously. The idea is more important than the source.
Ladies and gentlemen, please. Let's try - for once - to be civil in the interests of our community. If we can make this work, maybe we can take a step towards becoming one Town once again. It seems worth a try to me.
37 comments:
good thinking, imre. as i wrote in the post before this one, this fighting stuff is just too much.
there's a question i often ask myself: would i rather be right, or would i rather be happy. i usually choose happy... but that's just me.
How about a town wide pot luck dinner and dance to help each other meet their neighbors and bring as many different people together in a social environment without the political side. I've lived on Queens highway for 19 years and only know a few of my neighbors !!
something like that sounds great. how about a dessert social?
Well, it seems like people are far more eager to insult and offend than to offer constructive ideas. Some of my posts garnered over 40 comments, most nasty, while this one has only three.
Much thanks, by the way, to Alysse and TroutTrooper for the ideas. If anyone is interested in doing either a pot luck or dessert social, let's do it! Maybe if we get to know each other, we can learn to disagree without being disagreeable.
i was thinking the same thing. i think a lot of people thrive in the negative. that's unfortunate, because being positive is so much more fun.
A dance sounds wonderful.
How about a Community game night,
like bingo or a Rochester Residents only night a Skate Time where people can bring their kids.
There could also be plans made for a community picnic during warmer weather of course.
winter...cold...indoor sounds good to me, hehe, i hate the cold...skatetime sounds like the best choice for this time of year...sign me up. i don't skate, but i LOVE skeeball
How about a tea party?
I would love to see a good ole fashion barn dance or square dance.
What about an annual holiday party?
Or a "help your neighbor" day or weekend? This could help our senior neighbors....the very same people who helped make this Town the place we all love and call home!
the senior theme is great... i love'em.
might be too late to plan a christmas thing, but jan/feb are slow months, and boring, cold & just plain yucky... how about a winter party, festival, whatever... something fun to get rid of the winter blues.
raising money for whatever is always nice & makes us feel good.
Dear Mr. Beke -
Wow! Thank you for listening to my pleas for civility on this forum. A few days ago, I just stopped checking this blog after feeling frustrated that every time I raised a question for discussion other posters thought I must be some covert board member.
These ideas are just the sort of thing I've been wondering about. Personally, I love the idea for a town-wide pot luck dinner and barn dance. That would be a blast.
These sorts of things - events that are not politically sponsored and are not dominated by any political factions - are EXACTLY what I have been hoping for.
Thanks for your experiment.
I have been reading and reflecting a lot about what makes for a healthy town - everything from these kinds of events that bring people together to hospitable buildings and so forth.
I have some other ideas, too.
The spirit is that we the citizens can rise about political parties - more so than politicians can - and create the kind of healthy town we want. We do not have to have politicians do it for us; in fact, we would be much better off if we relied less on politicians to shape the neighborhoods this great town deserves.
All the best. (And thanks for not criticizing my anonymity.)
I also wanted to add some other more specific ideas:
- for next Christmas 2008: Some of us raise funds to provide stuffed stockings for kids downtown - complete with Santa - Carolers singing - maybe involve our many artists & photographers & musicians somehow - maybe involve our many talented contractors and carpenters somehow
- A large Easter egg hunt for the kids (and adults)
- A Halloween parade on Main Street next year for the kids (and adults)
- And, YES, something to honor the Seniors. This should be very meaningful and thoughtful.
And, again, I really think these events will be more meaningful to the town's unity if they are not sponsored by any political groups or town boards. Just my two cents.
All the best.
I agree that any of the events mentioned should not be funded by any political party or our town government.
We need to keep in mind that these things cost money and need to be organized. It needs to be an organization that can fundraise and/or ask for donations.
The first group that comes to my mind is the Chamber of Commerce, they did a wonderful job with organizing the Jennie Bell Pie Festival.
Anyone else have any suggestions?
i agree...this is egg-actly (hehe, easter egg hunt is great idea) what we need. just plain community fun, no politics or personalities involved.
if committees are formed, count me in.
alysse, i think you are the person to make this happen. you seem like a "git r' dun" kind of person.
we don't need no commitee, all we need is a group of people who care about our Town and our neighbors.
sorry, maybe committee wasn't the word to use. but whatever, it can't be done alone, so a group, as you said, is needed.
and, also sorry, but can you drop the anonymous & use your name. i still believe that to be taken seriously 'real'is the way to go.
and, your 'git r dun' reference makes me feel like you think i'm a hick,redneck or whatever, which a good thing, since this former 'jersey girl' is proud to be a 'country girl'.
at any rate, i'm happy this positive conversation is taking place. i hope more sign on & start chatting. it's all about fun, & the more the merrier.
i do not think of you as a hick or redneck. i'm proud to say that i was born & raised in the country.
i am disappointed that more people are not posting on this blog.
At first, it seemed like the experiment I proposed was a flop. Over the first few days, we got only three comments. Then, somehow, things took off. Apparently, our neighbors (regardless of their politics) really do want this Town to become a country community again, where we can be friendly and know one another even if we happen to disagree on politics.
Thank God! I had a feeling that, even if we compete hard to validate our own points of view, we can find ways to get beyond them in our personal relationships with one another. You guys have proven that point beyond any doubt.
Now, we need to actually make some of these things (or, preferably, all - in time) happen.
So, here are the ideas thus far:
- Pot Luck Dinner & Dance
- Dessert Social
- Community Game Night
- Rochester Night at Skate Time 209
- Community Picnic
- Tea Party
- Christmas/Holiday Party
- Help-Your-Neighbor Day or Weekend (perhaps focusing on seniors)
- Barn Dance
- Winter Festival
- 2008 Christmas Festival and Fundraiser
- Halloween Parade
- Easter Egg Hunt (thanks for the pun, Alysse, heh heh)
Also, to the person who thanked me for this experiment: no thanks is needed. I think, deep down, most of us want what is best for the Town as a whole. We may disagree on what that is or how to achieve it, but no one wants to live in a Town where half of us hate the other half. You're right, civility is lacking and it's easy to get carried away during political campaigns, especially if we're convinced someone has done something bad to us. However, I have not had to remove a single post for nastiness here. People have taken this experiment to heart and not one person has tried to ruin it. Maybe that's a light at the end of the tunnel.
Let's try to bring civility back. I have one simple idea to start: let's get on a first name basis with one another. Mr., Mrs., Miss, Ms. all serve to separate people. I'm not "Mr. Beke." I'm just Imre. I said I won't criticize anonymity in this experiment, and I won't. I would, however, like to invite you all to tell us who you are. Let's get on that first name basis. I know it's only one small step in a long journey, but one step is better than none, isn't it?
As for the idea of a committee, I understand that that word sounds like a government group. However, whatever name we find for it, getting together to do these things is important as the goal itself. Just organizing these ideas will bring us together a bit.
By the way, this is a Town of hicks and rednecks and that's not just a good thing, it's a great thing. We are who we are, there's no need to change that. Let's be proud of our heritage and enjoy just being country.
Keep the ideas coming, guys! We'll make this Town a family yet.
Imre,
No amount of square dancing or community brownie eating can heal this town until the nasty words come down from the internet. Unless the various web and blog masters remove what has been posted during the last two years, they will serve as a permanent scar on our town.
You are right smack in the middle of this problem in our town. Have you read your own blog? It is full of attacks, put downs and all sorts of nastiness. Assuming you are true to your word and believe what you have written, you will probably never take back, apologize for or remove them from the internet. I am not saying you should back away of your own words, its a free country, but to then turn around and use this blog as a pulpit to lecture to people and try to create an image that you are acting in a 'higher moral realm' regarding community reconciliation seems antithetical.
You cannot have it both ways. If you really believe in and have reconciliation in your heart then you must start with yourself. You need to step down from your IMRE pulpit and remove these cynical online words. The web master of the RRC needs to do the same and remove the distorted photos and all of the other stuff he has put on that site in the spirit of meanness. Yes, yes, yes, I understand there are two sides to every fight. But, if you really believed in these new words, you should take the first concrete steps towards your stated new goal.
Imre, what I am ultimately saying is that reconcilliation starts in our hearts. We need to remove words like hick, redneck, weekender, citiot, republican, democrat, liberal and conservative from our local way of seeing each other. We need to make special efforts to say 'hi' to people when we see them, especially the ones we do not know. We need to police ourslves and to some extent our friends until we can begin to stop putting people down for just being themselves. This is hardly easy and will not happen over night. It takes real work and a serious effort to change entrenched patterns. Some things also will never change. But plenty of others can significantly change for the good only if we are willing to do so in our hearts.
It's unfortunate that you find it necessary to take what was becoming a very positive experience for many of us and try to ruin it.
As to your remarks:
(1) I do not run the Republican Club website. If you object to their content, I suggest you take it up with them.
(2) My previous writings were not cynical. They were either characterizations of the official acts and words of a Town Board with which I vehemently disagreed or answers to those who publicly defended the Board. Never were my words personal, unlike much of what was written in response and many of the letters to the local papers written by supporters of Supervisor Duke. In the interests of balance and to allow the other side an opportunity to make their case known, I allowed completely free commentary, not censoring a single word. My blog was political commentary which, by its nature, cannot be sugar and spice and everything nice. When one shows another's public acts as being contrary to the will of the people and not in their best interests, that tends to be harsh. However, such political commentary, from both Right and Left, keeps this country free. I will not apologize for that nor should anyone on either side of the political fence apologize for similarly expressed opinions.
By the way, I neither lecture nor tell anyone what to do. I asked for suggestions and people responded. This is nothing but a free exchange of ideas.
I firmly believe that we can have Townwide unity without compromising our principles or beliefs, whatever they might be. If you do not, I don't know how to convince you otherwise. I simply know one thing: we can agree to disagree and still remain a Town of neighbors. Expressions of political opinion should not be an impediment nor should one have to limit one's expressions of such opinions in order to make peace with others.
Imre,
I know well that you do not run the RRC website.
As I said, as long as the stuff remains up on both yours and the RRC websites there can be no peace in our community. They are a constant reminder of the worst our town can be.
These sites have accomplished their goals, they should come down so people can begin to heal and move forward.
Until you are ready to actually act in a manner that reflects your stated goal potlucks and picnics are silly.
Imre,
Your response doesn't surprise me. I know well that you do not run the RRC website.
As I said, as long as the stuff remains up on both yours and the RRC websites there can be no peace in our community. They are a constant reminder of the worst our town can be.
These sites have accomplished their goals, they should come down so people can begin to heal and move forward.
Until you are ready to actually act in a manner that reflects your stated goal, potlucks and picnics are silly.
Unity can occur only after these websites are taken down.
let it go.
or not...it's your choice.
Alysse,
That is exactly the point the websites should 'let it go' they need to come down so we can move forward.
i'm sorry, anon, i'm sure you're a very nice person, maybe even someone i could be good friends with, laugh with & learn from, but talking to someone under the disguise of anonymous is like talking to someone who won't look you in the eye, & i just can't do that. maybe that doesn't bother other people, but it definitely bothers me.
i'd love to continue the conversation, so when & if you feel you can be free enough to 'come out', i will do so. but until then, i'm signing off.
(sorry imre, but i have to be true to myself. this blog is a GREAT idea. too bad more people won't participate. see you at the party)
anon: please come to the party at the rondout golf club, as my guest, the sunday after thanksgiving.
have a good night... alysse
Someone forwarded me a link to this blog, which I have never read before, who was excited about the exchanges taking place. I can see why.
I would definitely participate in helping organize any of the above mentioned non-partisan community-building festivities (personally, I'm partial to the square dancing idea - are there any musicians out there?).
As for the latest entries... I guess it's inevitable that coming together won't always be smooth. Personally I feel that we shouldn't wait for the RC website (or anything else) to change before having this conversation. Many people on both sides have been offended. We'll have to drop those balls if these events are really going to be FUN and DIVERSE! Maybe many of us will need to go beyond our comfort zones to actually make this type of thing a success. But what kind of place do you want to live in?
I agree with bluebell (and I agree with the previous agitated anon, and with Imre, and with alysse - all in different ways). This transition will be a challenge. If we genuinely wish to reach out to one another, we do have to recognize that reconciliation may not be as easy for many of our neighbors as having a barn dance and saying, "Let bygones be bygones." Perhaps some people on all sides (I'm sure there are more than two) who have been personally attacked and emotionally invested in town politics the past few years will need to personally and sincerely apologize to one another for any harm done and shake hands. Even a genuine phone call from one to the other (not just politicians) might be a good start. I'm not one who has been intimately involved in town affairs, so I will leave it to those of you have to consider this matter further.
In reviewing Imre's blogs, I have not yet found any personal attacks that Imre has made. Many who respond to his blogs, however, have been vicious and nasty - but 1) that nastiness has come from people who both support and don't support Imre's views - really, I have read some vicious, derogatory comments on "both" sides that don't encourage me to side with any political "team" in this town; 2) Imre should not have to censor those views. Whenever he has responded to posters who have attacked him or his views on his blog, he usually critiques them on what he views as poor reasoning, etc. Now, I don't always agree with Imre's tactics (although I do appreciate many of his arguments and his town narratives). Some of his rhetorical spin issues and on Town Board actions in the past might have incited agitation; I don't always agree with his account of things; and some of his arguments seem like sophistry (that is not a personal swipe, Imre), but on this blog at least he has not lowered himself to personal insults or personal nastiness (not from what I have read).
That said, the RRC website is a whole other matter. I don't need to detail its general tactics that have been very personal. One problem for Imre's blog is that the RRC's main page is set up with direct links to Imre's blog, which make it appear as if Imre's blog is part of the RRC website. In fact, Imre, I at first thought your blog was part of the RRC. To access your blog I still go through RRC because their url is easier to remember. I would bet, too, that most people come across your blog through the RRC links. It's sort of like a webber going to Howard Stern's website to access George Will's blog and thinking George Will's site and Stern's site are intimately linked.
So, Imre, if you think the previous poster's concerns are legitimate - and they might be, I don't know - then you might consider asking the RRC not to link to your blog - or ask them to link to your blog in a less conspicuous way that doesn't make it appear as if your blog is part of their site. Make sense?
I hope the conversation that the previous poster raised does not stop. The fact that he or she bothered to reach out and to try to begin a conversation suggests that he or she is pained and really would like to work toward honest reconciliation. The comment about a barn dance just being silly probably stems from his or her desire for other more direct gestures of reconciliation that affect people who have been emotionally invested. (Gees, I'm not a therapist - I am just giving my two cents to help the reconciliation.)
Regardless, I also might consider helping to organize some of these events if we can really reach out across the town's valleys and rifts. Where are the other people in this town, the other people who were so quick to post on earlier entries? I hope we hear from them, too, to prove that Rochester can be a place of accord, that Rochester can be a model for reconciliation.
When town citizens take charge beyond politics in healthy, good ways - THAT is a town of the people.
Burgess,
Thank you so much for your well thought out comment. I'm sure it comes as no surprise that there are points with which I disagree, but that doesn't bother me. I hope you don't take offense, either. If we all agreed, there would be no need for democracy. Please be assured that I do not take your remark about "sophistry" as personal. That is your opinion and you have every right to it. It may surprise some that some of my closest friends are people with whom I vehemently disagree on political and philosophical issues. However, I think life would be rather dull if one only associated with those with whom one agrees. Not to mention, having our opinions challenged forces us to defend them and grow in our understanding of ourselves.
As to the Republican Club website linking to this blog, I don't censor people who comment here (where I could have some control, if I so desired). I won't try to censor someone else's website. I simply do not believe in telling others what to say or where to link.
I also appreciate your views on that certain "previous poster," however I have difficulty feeling empathy for someone who prefers to criticize others' efforts rather than stepping up to the plate and doing something himself. He is certainly entitled to his views on what did or did not cause or exacerbate the rift we all see in Town (obviously, I do not agree with them). However, his words might carry more weight were they accompanied by some kind of action. Calling ideas put forth by others (not me!) "silly" is far from productive, constructive or positive.
A community event happening now.
Dear Friends,
As Thanksgiving approaches, it is appropriate to recognize the good work that the Rochester Food Pantry does for neighbors in our community.
The Food Pantry is an independent tax-exempt organization that was founded in May 1992. Its sole purpose is to provide emergency supplies of food to people in our community who request it. The organization is staffed by a group of about twenty dedicated volunteers, who work in donated space at the Accord Fire House.
When someone calls the Food Pantry’s hotline (626-7501), a volunteer returns the call and makes an appointment to pick up a food basket. These generally contain enough canned food, frozen meat, dairy products, and other staples to provide three meals a day for four days. All calls are confidential.
In 2006, the Food Pantry was able to help about 350 families by providing more than 15,000 meals to serve nearly 1,300 people, including children.
The Food Pantry receives about one-third of its funding from private individuals and received additional funds from the federal Emergency Food and Shelter Program and the state Hunger Prevention and Nutrition Assistance Program as well as Shoprite. The money is used to buy food for neighbors in need and to pay its hotline telephone bill.
This Thanksgiving, we encourage you to make a contribution to the Food Pantry. We appreciate your support of this endeavor and hope that you will participate by making a donation of money, non-perishable food, or your own volunteer service. The Rochester Residents Association will match all monetary donations made to the Food Pantry, up to $250.00.
Separately, we’d also like to invite you to join us at the Community Thanksgiving Dinner on Thanksgiving Day, from 11:30 to 2:00, at the Town of Rochester Community Center, made possible by a grant from the Rochester Residents Association. All are welcome at this free event and reservations are recommended (call 626-2115)
Do any of the farmers who might read this blog have a barn availible that could be used for holding a square dance / dessert social and would be willing to ?? As for music there are several small county bands in the local area that if asked might be willing to play just so they can. I know Ballentine of Minnewaska motors has a band and just start getting the word out and see what happens. From some of the postings some people feel that the healing process has to be done between political parties and individuals but the fact is that has to be worked out between themselves and this may never happen but that doesn't mean it has to be block others from trying to move foward. The fact is society today does a wonderful job seperating people because of just trying to make a living for your family. I chose to be the only working member in my family so my wife can stay home and raise our 2nd daughter and I have to work a lot of overtime just to keep up and I'm sure so do a lot of other people in our town this makes time off from work a precious commodity and know from experience in the last several months I haven't seen many of my closet friend because of that and this isn't even touching other issues that effect society. One place to start just start saying hello to people in public. Part of the problem is plain old manners are out the window. I was raised you don't wear a hat at mealtime and everywhere you go people do the words "excuse me" don't seem to be in peoples vocabulary anymore and when you say it people look at you like you have three heads. I know Imre commented on the use of surs like mame or sir even at the age of 35 I speak to my elders ( no disrespect meant) but as sign of respect for who they are and accomplished in life how many reading this blog took the time on Veterans day to thank the veterans they know for their service either in peace or wartime. I know I did. Lets just each person who reads this try to be a little nicer, we as a whole might see a difference in the little country town we call home.
Trouttrooper.....you are 100% right!! As the mother of four children, I stress to my children the importance of being kind & respectful to others. When someone holds a door for us when entering or existing a building each one of my four children are expected to say "thank you" and are prompted to do so if they forget.
Donating to the Rochester Food Pantry is a great way to help your neighbors. I think it is important to stress that all monies and food contributions stay here in Rochester. This is another great learning tool that I use with my children, they help stock the shelves at the Food Pantry.
I also take them to buy toys to donate for less fortunate children every Christmas. This is another way we can donate locally and help our neighbors. The Kerhonkson Elementary School helps families in the district.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you!
come to the party at rondout golf club sunday, 4-7pm. the 'hollywood' letters will be auctioned off, with all the proceeds going to the food pantry. see you there!
Trouttrooper (and others),
-Thanks for your good thoughts. I agree about the "sirs" and "ma'ams." Out of habitual respect with the way I was raised, I still address people this way. I also have a habit of holding the door for strangers. I'm glad my neighbors appreciate these small but "big" gestures.
- We have a barn, not huge, but it's clear. Don't know if it would work, but we'll think on it.
- The Food Pantry is a great place to start, too - and so is showing up just for a few minutes to say "hello" at the Thanksgiving Dinner.
- Speaking of which, I wish Rochester had a good coffee shop where we all might actually run into one another on a daily, weekly basis. Saunderskill Farm comes close. Support them and the other farms.
- Finally, is anyone willing to move forward on the Easter Egg Hunt event? Easter is March 23 - which will be here before we know it. Since it's also two days after the Spring Solstice, maybe we could make the event a "Rochester Renewal Event" - a time for all of us to emerge from winter, join hands, and celebrate. March can still be cold, but here are SOME ideas (just brainstorming): - We find a big field or farm or common grounds. - Some of us dye and hide a LOT of eggs for the kids. - Some of us gather funds to make very simple baskets or something for the kids and seniors. - Someone organize a little music. - Someone organizes a few local farmers to donate some goods (maybe?) or some way to give attention to the farmers. - Someone pulls in some items (art, contractor services, etc.) that could be auctioned off to benefit a local group.
Just some thoughts to keep the ball rolling.
Imre,
I'll drop the topic of websites, but I did wish to respect you with a response.
Many of my friends also have very different views than I about certain matters, so I appreciate your point.
I'm not suggesting you censor comments here; I'm glad you don't. I'm also not suggesting you tell RRC or any website what to do. It's pretty standard Internet common courtesy, though, for one website owner to ask permission before linking to another site. My suggestion comes from asking whether or not you want the association of this blog with the RRC site or not.
So, if you want the impression that your blog is part of RRC, fine. That's your choice, and I respect that. If you do not want the impression that your blog is part of RRC, then you don't have to tell anyone anything or impose on anyone; you can, though, ask the RRC master to provide one link - not a menu of links - from their site to yours. I make this suggestion, again, only because your blog is taking a different tact toward reconciliation and because another poster brought up the subject of the RRC website's history.
Really, I'll drop the topic.
All the best.
Happy Thanksgiving to EVERYone.
Peace.
happy thanksgiving, everyone.
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